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20 August 2007

Comments

cyberthrush

Conflicts between several of the parties involved here far precedes the IBWO saga, and there's no branch of science that doesn't have such tensions behind the scenes. I have my own beefs with the way Cornell has handled things, but this particular story barely registers, it is so typical of the way things operate in the realm of publication. As far as supporting CLO financially, I think it's an instance of 'don't throw out the baby with the bathwater,' though others may feel differently. Every major bird research and conservation group out there could be flogged severely for some reason if analyzed with a fine-toothed comb, I suspect.

Dan

Nuthatch,
I'm with Cyberthrush on this one - conflicts among scientists and the politics of publishing is hardly news. So what if Fitz or anyone else acts in a less-than-perfect way to advance their own cause? He, and everyone else involved, are falliable, but that won't effect the outcome in the end.

Only new data (or the absence of it) will effect the outcome when the dust has settled, and that will be settled whether it happens behind the scenes or out in the open.

Well, I think that conflicts among scientists and controversies over publishing certainly are newsworthy, especially when public funds and other resources are involved. (Political corruption is certainly commonplace, but does that mean it is "hardly news" when discovered? By that standard, Watergate was "hardly news". Likewise, the "cherry-picking" of intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq is "hardly news", since such distortion of intelligence by politicians is commonplace.)

Yes, political pressure is commonplace, though by no means universal, in scientific publishing. (That does not mean it's ethical.) Sometimes political influence leads to bad data being published, but eventually, the bad data is ferreted out. Perhaps the political and ethical background behind the bad data is discovered in the process. That most definitely IS news.


Cotinis

Nuthatch et al.:
The comments above "Well, I think that conflicts among scientists and controversies over publishing certainly are newsworthy, ..." were written by me (Patrick Coin, a.k.a. Cotinis)--I signed into typekey but it does not appear to have written my signature to the discussion as it should.

Best to all, even the politicians!

Nuthatch

Since I'm in research academia myself, I'm aware of the politics and unsavory behavior involved. There are a few reasons I find this situation more troubling. First, this wasn't a paper reporting new data on the nesting behavior of white-thighed flapper-herons, it was the major ornithological discovery of modern times. If the discovery were true and undisputed, it meant a great deal of prestige and a place in history for the team. If approached with the caution the data warranted from the beginning, Cornell might just look like one more bunch of Bigfoot hunters. Second, a lot of money was involved. Note that Fitzpatrick's objection was that Jackson would prevent him (Fitz) from raising money. Finally, Cornell Lab of O. is responsible for a lot of regular folks getting involved in science. Americans today are confused and distrustful enough about science. I think Fitzpatrick has a special obligation to behave in an especially above-board manner.

Is it okay to be unethical or a jerk because everybody else is? Jeez.

John

The article is behind a paywall, so that may explain the lack of discussion on blogs. I think previous IBWO articles have been more accessible.

The most disturbing part of the accusations is the pressure from the Bush administration. Personal feuds are one thing - distasteful but probably to be expected. But government pressure comes with an implication (spoken or not) that publication could negatively affect future funding or contracts for his university. (Given the way the Bush administration operates, I don't think that is far-fetched.) If Fitzgerald used his government connections to suppress a paper, then he should resign.

Dan

Nuthatch,
That's fine, of course Fitz would've been better off not pursuing such a path. But you asked whether that should change people's minds about the data - of course it shouldn't.

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